My Issue with "Discussions" on SalemSpectator.com

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My first post, in response to someone stating that I should report posts I feel were off-topic per the rulings that I have seen passed down on other threads. After I mentioned that I felt that certain posts were off-topic, I received responses from several Moderators indicating that they felt otherwise.

@KathyLu Clearly it wouldn't have done any good. Apparently every thread is allowed to turn into a bash Sami thread as long as the Moderators are on board with it.

I'm just going to step out of this discussion and back to my lurking, which I have been doing for the past 5+ years. It's silly that the direction of the show made me so excited that I wanted to talk about it in the forums I have been visiting for so long, only to see that's not really possible no matter how much it's claimed to be.

For people who get so angry about the current state of the show, and how much yelling there is at how much characters like EJ pressure and push around other DOOL characters, I think that with such comments as "I want to see Sami Brady die" and how every single thread seems to turn into a Sami (and often EJ) bashing thread, how does that work? I feel bad for anyone who seems to have an opinion here that does not align with the majority.

As for the Sami/EJ love, I've still got it...and will be grinning when I read over all the comments here of/when they ever do get together, I suppose. In the meantime, I'm going to enjoy any EJ/Sami scenes, including these major make-out scenes they're currently having.
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A follow-up post -- after my previous post was partially deleted with no reasoning specified, that responded to a suggestion that if I did not enjoy debating, that I might be happier elsewhere. I would like to note that the poster who suggested this to me did so with utmost respect in a very kindly worded post:

I am only responding as most of my post was deleted...without even so much as a note on my post specifying why it was removed. I just wanted to call attention to that fact in that, those of you who saw my original post might note, it makes my point.

I love debating -- love it -- but I do not believe what happens here is simply debate or I would be an incredibly happy camper. I feel like a crazy amount of the posts here are VERY ANGRY posts in which people tend to grab onto a mob mentality. Arguments and calm discussion fly out the door and it comes down to responses of "HE RAPED HER! or SHE IS SLEEPING WITH HER RAPIST!" (when the thread has NOTHING to do with that) until it's closed because, why? It's either too long, off-topic or TPTB feel that the discussion is over. Debates are not filled with angry, hateful remarks. They are filled with calm discussions that raise valid points from both sides, regardless if people are swayed one way or the next.

Most of the time that you see me stand up and start debating with someone here, it's typically because a small group of people, or one even, are being ganged up on by a larger group of people. Regardless of how I feel about what is being discussed, it bothers me so I jump in to help them out, so at least they have another on their side.

And I've deleted the rest of my post. It is more hurtful than helpful and I don't feel that I need to say it - again, something that I tend to do every single time I am responding to a thread. I read it over carefully before posting to make sure that I am not insinuating that someone is dumb for having a particular viewpoint and that I am not being brutally mean when I talk about disliking a character. In fact, since Poirot once commented to me that others might be bummed to hear my opinion that the Rafe & Sami coupling is incredibly boring, I have been very careful to just say that I am not a fan of the couple, rather than get all detailed with it and post it over & over again in every thread. I just don't think it's necessary to beat the dead horse and maybe make someone here feel like they can't declare their love for Rafe/Sami... but I guess that's just my opinion.
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There is no member bashing here so why one wouldn't feel they could post their opinion is beyond me. And so just for clarification. Member bashing isn't "I can't stand Jamie (made up Day's character name) she's a whore, it's time for her to go" Member bashing isn't "I disagree. Jamie (made up Day's character name) is a misunderstood person who didn't know that she was having sex with identical quadruplets. She was just trying to please her man". Member bashing is "only a frigging idiot or skank would agree with the crap membernamehere (made up name again) just spouted"
 
I have had pretty good experience on this site, I am also a dreaded EJ Sami fan but I love to argue and debate my point I do tend to go off topic alot (darn ADD ).but sometimes I am told Iam off topic and I don't feel like Iam however the folks that work on this site do work very hard and they are in charge so I try not to make an argument, sometimes it is hard to be in the minority, but there have also been plenty of topics where Iam right there with the masses having a very laid back discussion. We all interperate things differently and I can debate things even when I know I wont convince others to see it my way. Alot of times when I feel frustrated from being in the minority I switch to a more neutral thread and it usually helps. I personally love reading your post and hope you don't stop posting, try to keep in mind that even if somebody is arguing with you it is not meant as a personal attack they just want to make their point the same way you do, I hope I have helped at least a little and hey you can always join me in the party room with ur I love Sami and EJ banner and we can party down while things are good and whine a little when its not so good, lol. :)
 
To clarify, Michael Angelo deleted his own comment. No moderators did that. Was there something wrong in my response to him? If you feel so, please private message me or report my post to the moderators. I felt I was respectful in my response. I said I could understand where EJ/Sami supporters were coming from or why they want to support the pairing. Then I gave my opinion, which just happens to be an opposing one. That is discussion, not attack. That is debate, not unwelcoming attitude.

I said that I PERSONALLY couldn't support a pairing and I will let you know right here and now that the rape isn't even the biggest factor in forming my opinion on the couple. The biggest reason I'm against the pairing is that I feel EJ and Sami are too destructive to each other and to everyone around them when they are in the same orbit. EJ loves controlling people, loves feeling in control of every situation. He loves having the upper hand and an ace up his sleeve. Time and time again we have seen EJ use people and manipulate them, we have seen how he reacts when things don't go as he planned, etc. Sami is an unknown variable in his world of order. He can't control her and her impulsiveness. Their relationship, if they ever truly had a real one (which they haven't), would self-destruct in nanoseconds. Simply put, they don't "fit" as a couple. They don't complement each other; they don't bring out the other's better qualities. They cause destruction and chaos.
 
i'm with you Romance. none of what goes on in the sami threads are productive debates. They are the sami fans supporting her and the sami bashers constnatly beating a dead horse about the rape.

I've said it before that it starts to become offensive to a sami supporter that rape is constantly being brought up because one would assume that being constantly reminded that Sami was raped means that those people think sami supporters are OK with rape which is not the case.

I wouldn't care that sami debates happened ad nauseum here so long as I wasn't constantly being reminded that Sami's been raped and I shouldn't be ok with it. I'm not ok with rape and I don't think its romantic. I do however NOT CARE that Sami wants to fall in love with her rapist. Its her choice.
 
For me I don't look at it as she falls in love with her rapist, due to how many different writers have come and gone I only remember what I want and I realize that my selective memory doesn't make the rape nonexistent but I choose to live in the here and now and just enjoy or not enjoy what is being written, I have always been a fan of this pairs chemistry however I have not always been a fan of the stories written for them, I feel like this pairing would be such a super couple if written well from day one, I think had they written these two well from the start very few people would question their chemistry (I realize there would still be people who would still only want her with Lucas because that pairing also has a very loyal fanbase ). Anyways that is just my 2 cents on that subject, atleast for now, lol
 
In one ear and out the other. :confused: WhateverMarlena, please don't assume that all posters who don't like Sami/EJ or even the character of Sami are "beating a dead horse about the rape". My post above states my opinion on the couple in general and none of that post had to do with the rape but about the characters fundamentally.

Second, the rape of Sami by EJ is relevant when discussing a relationship between the two of them. It is a part of their combined past together. It will always be a source of contention among fans because any resolution to it was botched horribly by the writers. That's my biggest problem with the pairing when thinking of the rape specifically. It's that there was no lengthy "road to redemption" to give credibility to any remorse EJ might have felt for that event (which I don't interpret remorse from the ONE episode in which Sami forgave him and in which he couldn't even say the word 'rape').
 
I truly don’t want to throw oil onto an already lit fire, but I have to say that the disrespect shown to “The Moderators” and “The Board” and the “Person Who Runs this Board” are a little disconcerting. I am just happy that we have a “Person or Persons” willing to devote a significant amount of their personal time to provide and maintain this website, the “Board” which consists of all of us who post, read, lurk, debate (yes sometimes to the point of being argumentative) and “The Moderators” who work hard to keep “The Board” civil. I have in the past lurked at other websites that I truly find argumentative, offensive, and downright mean-spirited; I don’t often see that here.

Having said that, I always try to “look at the other side” in the forums I read, but when I see terminology such as “mob mentality” and “it starts to become offensive” if an issue is repeatedly raised, I have to wonder if there is anyone who believes should all post only agreements to the original post and never bring up anything that happened in the past. No fun there!! There are several plots and storylines currently airing that I find offensive but others don’t; I would hope we all might consider that opposing views on any subject might just be offensive to others before berating others for what they perceive to be offensive.

I have seen extremely vocal and non-flattering posts about EJ, Nicole, Sami, Lucas, Rafe, Dan, Roman, John, Carrie--wait, maybe I should just post a cast list—and I certainly don’t always agree. Even when the majority sees a character in a different light than I do, I don’t consider it mob mentality or offensive – just a difference of opinion where I’m in the minority.
 
What WhateverMarlena was saying is: when posters constantly reference to the EJ/Sami rape in response to something positive about the pairing - it makes the poster who is in favor of EJ/Sami look as though they are falling for "a rapist and his victim." Rather than two characters that the poster likes.
So if 'Ejamilover123' starts a thread, "loved the kiss scene between Sami and EJ. glad Will helped them escape" and in response pages upon pages of Sami/EJ bashing form, it embarrasses the poster and most likely makes them feel ashamed to have said what they said. Because in everyone elses eyes they like romances between "a rapist and his victim" as opposed to "EJ and Sami."
Threads have, IMO, become deceitful and I feel jaded when I open a thread to read one thing and instead it is yet another Sami/EJ bash.
Maybe the thread "KILL OFF SAMI BRADY!!!!" should never be allowed to get locked. I think it could be a good place to release all this rage, so the other threads won't get contaminated. Just a suggesstion
 
A thousand likes to Sher!! :clap:

MichaelAngelo, I don't see how comments made by others can make you feel a certain way about anything. If you have a strong opinion about something, you should be able to defend it without feeling ganged up on. People aren't always going to agree with you about everything, but I think you already know that. :)
 
I think voicing your personal thoughts, especially when one feels hurt and or attacked, is perfectly respectful. I also think TPTB on SalemSpectator would welcome any feedback whether it be positive or negative considering they are nice people.

The great thing, obviously, about this show is that it is rich in history. Many generations, many complex connections between characters. However, when the past is mentioned over and over again it may get a little nauseating and more importantly may discourage posters from speaking their mind and feeling welcome. Nobody wants to feel stupid for their opinion and the constant bashing creates a hazardous environment. This isn't a debate, it's a fact. People are legitimately upset about this (See my comment above)
 
Michael Angelo said:
What WhateverMarlena was saying is: when posters constantly reference to the EJ/Sami rape in response to something positive about the pairing - it makes the poster who is in favor of EJ/Sami look as though they are falling for "a rapist and his victim." Rather than two characters that the poster likes.
So if 'Ejamilover123' starts a thread, "loved the kiss scene between Sami and EJ. glad Will helped them escape" and in response pages upon pages of Sami/EJ bashing form, it embarrasses the poster and most likely makes them feel ashamed to have said what they said. Because in everyone elses eyes they like romances between "a rapist and his victim" as opposed to "EJ and Sami."
Threads have, IMO, become deceitful and I feel jaded when I open a thread to read one thing and instead it is yet another Sami/EJ bash.
Maybe the thread "KILL OFF SAMI BRADY!!!!" should never be allowed to get locked. I think it could be a good place to release all this rage, so the other threads won't get contaminated. Just a suggesstion
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EJ and Sami will always be rapist and victim. It's just something that can't be changed. It's not the viewers fault that tptb saw fit to write the rape story and the rape by proxy story. That is why they will never be just EJ and Sami. So it doesn't matter what goes on with those two it will always come down to all the evil things EJ has done to Sami and the Brady clan including and not limited to the rapes. This is my issue and how one reacts to me stating this is not my issue it's theirs.
 
While folks her keep saying that THE RAPE is what is constantly brought up, its not just the initial RAPE (which was bad enough) standing alone. The couple has a long history of abuse that only began with the rape. There's a long laundry list of things that EJ has done to Sami, the worst of which happened just a year ago and less than 4 months after the HATE BOINK. That history is not going to be ignored, and is IMO very relevant to what is happening between them now. Many are IMO justified in questioning Sami's current actions when none of what happened on our screens within a year's time has not been dealt with. If you don't want to debate your couple's history you should stay on boards only devoted to that couple. Lucas and Sami fans still have to deal with their long term history, and I dare say if EJ and Nicole or Sami and Rafe unite, their fans will have to deal with the fact of the HATE BOINK.
 
First off, thank you so much sher, for your post. I have read all the bashing, the complaints, and yes, that reference to "mob mentality", which in itself is bashing. I know people don't think what they sometimes say is "bashing" per se, but it is.
Thank you also for the recognition of the time and effort that goes into making this board a mostly fun place to be.

It really is astounding when someone takes to the board to post their "issue" instead of contacting board personnel directly. Especially when they indicated they would no longer be posting, just lurking.

And you are right. We have all read posts/thread that have said negative things about various characters, nearly every single one of them, except perhaps Alice. Even Maggie has caught heck a few times. I love Lucas, Jack, Rafe, and have read tons of negative things about them all. I don't agree, but that is what a debate is all about, isn't it? Varying opinions on a situation, a character, etc.That is what this board is about.

That said......

I used to be a huge fan of Sami's, despite her schemes, her rash behavior, her revenge plots. And there are posters on this board who have never liked her, not from Day 1 when she returned as a teen. But to me it did not matter. That is until earlier this year. It was bad enough the former writers had Sami who had never ever been unfaithful do so......but she did so with the man who not only raped her, but had conspired to put an imposter in her bed, engaging is rape by proxy. Without making the huge list of that man's transgressions against her, it was horrifying to see Sami embrace, defend, be cordial to that man, and to throw her loving husband out of the house for a kiss when she herself was guilty of much worse. And currently, Sami's behavior has created a lot of talk. Just her turn. Carrie had her turn. So did Austin, Abby. EJ has had several turns, so has Nicole. Carly. Currently it is Sami.

I learned today, that rude comments were deleted from a post, and what the comments were. And they were bashing me, insulting the board and it's moderators.
That is not tolerated. I was very upset. I read another post a couple minutes later, wherein the poster is unhappy because people disagree with the poster's opinions, and so the poster is going to leave the board and not post, just read, That is the person's perogative. And those comments were deleted. And I am not going to publicly state the reasons.(Admittedly I also learned that people make copies of all their posts, don't know why, but they do, maybe it is so they can repost elsewhere, or perhaps just repost on the same board in a new thread! )

I put a lot of time & effort into making this board a safe one, and I am so grateful that I have help in that area from the other moderators. I have read too many posts from members who were so happy to have found a place where people cannot be insulted, disparaged personally for their opinions. I have visited other boards where such things go on, and have been horrified. We have very few rules here, but #1 as most know, is respect. Towards each other, the moderators and administrators.

No one is being attacked when someone disagrees with their opinion. If they feel that is the case, they should report a post they feel is PERSONALLY attacking either themselves or other members. But stating an opposing opinion is not attacking. Debating is presenting one side, and then someone else presents another side. It is too bad when a person decides that because others have a different opinion, and express it, they must be attacking.

Days does have a rich history, which is why there is constant reference to some of it. Doug marrying Addie, having Hope, Addie dying, and then marrying Addie's daughter, Julie. Patch & Kayla's romance. Marlena possessed. Susan Banks giving birth to Elvis. Chelsea being responsible for Zack's death. Nicole being Victor's ex-wife. John having been thought to be Roman, raising the twins, and then real Roman appearing, turning John's life upside down. Hope being turned into Princess Gina. ...it is all history, all matters, just as EJ raping Sami matters, and it was just a few years ago. Tje rape by proxy was much more recent.
 
Many posters don't feel like they can say anything positive about EJ without being berated. I absolutely agree with Romance and Michael. Just because you may not see it that way doesn't make it not so.
Respectfully of course.
Scarlett
 
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