Friday, January 11th, 2008

Wayne said:
Speaking in a literary sense, which makes a better villain? Someone for whom no hope exists, or someone who you *know* could go either way but is teetering on the line...?

IMHO, Stephano is the former. No redemption, no reason to "love to hate" him. He's your standard "[SIZE=-1]Snidely Whiplash" cartoon of a villain, replete with moustache and beard.

[/SIZE]EJ Dimera on the other hand may turn out to the be the latter. You can see and feel his humanity and you understand the torment he's going through (caught between his upbringing and his desire to do right). As such, you might be better able understand how he becomes a villain in the end, making him a much more capable, and a much more believable villain than Stephano has been in the last 20 years. Think "JR Ewing syndrome".

Wayne
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Good point Wayne!

OT: I have, three times now, typed out a longish response to this and also mentioned the issue of different characters being redeemed more easily than others. And three times, my network here at work has decided that I no longer need an internet connection and dropped it. I have rebooted my compter five times this morning and the helpdesk cannot seem to comprehend that this is a problem! LOL. So, I will not retype it again for fear of loosing my connection again. BTW, what happened to the OT smileys?

Sorry for the rant, just needed to get that off my chest!
 
I have wondered why I just can't like EJ....it was written a year ago that he would rape Sami and he did (how they will write that now does not matter in this discussion). I did not like his character before but after that I just couldn't stand to see him on the screen, then he began his rampage of torture and wickedness until I thought I would scream, it got so bad for me I quit watching for a while cause I just couldn't bear to watch him. BUT, back on GH when the Luke and Laura s/l occurred, I did not like the character of Luke before he raped Laura, then as they put them together and made them a adventurous super couple, I liked them. So why would I not like EJ if they write him a better person??? Part is surely that EJ continued his violence and torture of his victim but I think possibly the biggest difference is me....back in the 80's I was a young mother without much experience in the world and never gave it much thought....now I'm in my fifty's and have seen alot of violence and injustices in our world and I care so much more deeply for humanity.....and especially for women....I just cannot abide things that hurt women.....
I think it would be interesting to know the ages of people that adore EJ and the ages of people that are appalled by EJ......
 
Friday's Preview

Did Poirot ever post Friday's show? If so, where? I am having withdrawals!
 
PAllison said:
I have wondered why I just can't like EJ....it was written a year ago that he would rape Sami and he did (how they will write that now does not matter in this discussion). I did not like his character before but after that I just couldn't stand to see him on the screen, then he began his rampage of torture and wickedness until I thought I would scream, it got so bad for me I quit watching for a while cause I just couldn't bear to watch him. BUT, back on GH when the Luke and Laura s/l occurred, I did not like the character of Luke before he raped Laura, then as they put them together and made them a adventurous super couple, I liked them. So why would I not like EJ if they write him a better person??? Part is surely that EJ continued his violence and torture of his victim but I think possibly the biggest difference is me....back in the 80's I was a young mother without much experience in the world and never gave it much thought....now I'm in my fifty's and have seen alot of violence and injustices in our world and I care so much more deeply for humanity.....and especially for women....I just cannot abide things that hurt women.....
I think it would be interesting to know the ages of people that adore EJ and the ages of people that are appalled by EJ......
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I'm right there with ya...age and life exp's.......makes all the diff. in the world....the outer person doesn't show/change the inner person...that's what gets sooo many in trouble..they don't think of that until...it's totally too late. Then they become the victim...
 
PAllison said:
I have wondered why I just can't like EJ....it was written a year ago that he would rape Sami and he did (how they will write that now does not matter in this discussion). I did not like his character before but after that I just couldn't stand to see him on the screen, then he began his rampage of torture and wickedness until I thought I would scream, it got so bad for me I quit watching for a while cause I just couldn't bear to watch him. BUT, back on GH when the Luke and Laura s/l occurred, I did not like the character of Luke before he raped Laura, then as they put them together and made them a adventurous super couple, I liked them. So why would I not like EJ if they write him a better person??? Part is surely that EJ continued his violence and torture of his victim but I think possibly the biggest difference is me....back in the 80's I was a young mother without much experience in the world and never gave it much thought....now I'm in my fifty's and have seen alot of violence and injustices in our world and I care so much more deeply for humanity.....and especially for women....I just cannot abide things that hurt women.....
I think it would be interesting to know the ages of people that adore EJ and the ages of people that are appalled by EJ......
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I am 20 and I am disgusted the Ej character. Yeah is a soap but living in the world where a woman is blamed for been rape makes the EJ character more appalling.
 
abbymay said:
I am 20 and I am disgusted the Ej character. Yeah is a soap but living in the world where a woman is blamed for been rape makes the EJ character more appalling.
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Good for you abbymay....I'm thrilled to see a 20 year old strong women with self esteem and a brain. One that cares how women are treated and stands up and speaks when they are not treated right...wish we had more like you.....!!!!!
 
PAllison said:
Telling abbymary she is an intelligent woman has nothing to do with you....I told her that because she realizes that we live in a world where unfortunately some people still blame a woman for being raped and it should not be....I was commending her on being only 20 and caring about things like that.....
If you will read her comment again, you will see she stated that is why she finds EJ's character so appalling....

Your statment that people who watch soaps don't truly care about how women are treated is very telling.......
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ITA.....we have to stand up to women always being written and portrayed as victims, and this is the best place/soaps to start. Rape is not something to be taken lightly and we are trying to help TPTB see this....not just going along and accepting it...then we become the victim....
 
hberg said:
What because she is disgusted by EJ's character the rest of us don't have a brain? That is ridculous. If you truly care about the way a woman is treated - you wouldn't watch soap operas period. And if you want to go down that road, I am more than happy to discuss said treatment of Sami by Lucas. It has been horrendous to say the least.
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Women in many incident are protrayed as sex object and as the weaker sex in movies and in music. One of the reason why I USED to like Sami was the strength of her character. Yes she was liar and manipulative but she always took responsiblity for it (when she got got). Like the the Austin and Keri incident. I don't about Lucas History except the Franko fiasco. Ej has never taking any responsiblity for all his crimes especially the rape and the Writers have made it seem like sami has accepted and wants the view accept too. this present a negative image to the young views. Believe or not make believe is been translated into reality and Soaps are no different. And by the way I CARE ABOUT SOCIAL ISSUE AND I WATCH SOAPS AND I AM PROUD OF IF I can't stop watching it because reality can sometimes be boring..::cool::
 
Um..Okay. You missed the point entirely. Soaps are not meant to be sensible they are meant to be fantasy, drama, fun - entertainment. I find the show entertaining. I love watching it. But again, Lumi fans love to hold EJ to this higher set of standards - which is ridiculous. Everyone pays a price on soaps. Let's just say Lucas is getting his now. As for the crimes EJ has done, how many can really be proved? I doubt he shot John and put him in that coma, I have my own theory (as do many, many other fans) about what happened 12.29.06 and the black gloved crimes. Did he do bad things? Oh yes he did. But again, why does he need to be held to some higher standard. It is my opinion he is paying for his crimes. He just lost his father and basically is endangering his son's life and his own. But I can't rationalize to myself defending a fictional character - I just call a spade a spade when I see it.
 
I think that most of us are so used to the quality of other shows that we are trying to see that in the soaps...TPTB want that...they just don't write it.

If we weren't real...we couldn't watch entertainment.
 
freckles said:
I think that most of us are so used to the quality of other shows that we are trying to see that in the soaps...TPTB want that...they just don't write it.

If we weren't real...we couldn't watch entertainment.
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Well said. I don't watch any other soaps - so I have nothing to compare DOOL too. So it's my fault for not seeing quality difference but I watch other dramas, I can agree some are written much better than others.
 
hberg - I agree with you girl about it being a soap.
I refuse, just can't relate to anything on a soap being anywhere near reality. At all. John Black just came back from the dead AGAIN...so did Rolf, Stefano, etc. etc.
This is not reality...and it is people who can't separate the two that scare me. Soaps are adult shows for adult people who know the difference between the silly fiction of a soap opera and paying bills and caring for children and working at your job.

All of television is fantasy, and while today's shows are more violent and society is more violent, I am not sure which one is influencing the other.

By the way, I am 31, have a degree in social work and have seen and worked with more people in dire straights and bad situations than I care to have seen. And I still love my soaps and EJ. To compare the two is laughable. I need to escape to the fantasy in order to deal with reality.
 
Alligato said:
hberg - I agree with you girl about it being a soap.
I refuse, just can't relate to anything on a soap being anywhere near reality. At all. John Black just came back from the dead AGAIN...so did Rolf, Stefano, etc. etc.
This is not reality...and it is people who can't separate the two that scare me. Soaps are adult shows for adult people who know the difference between the silly fiction of a soap opera and paying bills and caring for children and working at your job.

All of television is fantasy, and while today's shows are more violent and society is more violent, I am not sure which one is influencing the other.

By the way, I am 31, have a degree in social work and have seen and worked with more people in dire straights and bad situations than I care to have seen. And I still love my soaps and EJ. To compare the two is laughable. I need to escape to the fantasy in order to deal with reality.
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Amen to that. I am older, working on a masters and work for a private consulting company in Global Health - what I see day to day would make anyone sick. I want to be as far from reality as possible in my down time. As far away as I can.
 
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